Thank you for your comments. To the last anonymous commentor; Let me stop at your first sentence. Why exactly do you have "full time pastors"? What is their purpose, how do they function? Why do you feel compelled to bring the Body of Christ (church) to meetings? Where in the New Testament do you find a man - the same man - who 1) preaches every Sunday, 2) marries people, 3) brings a message over a corpse, 4) burries it with a prayer, 5) visits old ladies, 6) says prayers before football games, 7) CEO's a church, 8) presides over elders and deacons, 9) is virtually always in dress attire, 10) makes alter-calls for acceptance of the gospel, 11) baptises all new converts and 12) whose office and all above practices are
supposedly based solidly on the Word of God and are found in scripture?
If we removed the present pastoral role from Christendom, there would be an almost total collapse of the "church" worldwide. If you try to find this man in the first century, you will see that he simply does not exist. And yet the church of God grew in number, spread geographically and functioned as it was purposed to function, with Jesus Christ as the one and only leader.
Your second sentence states that we "come to church". I take issue with this because it promotes the idea that church is a place we go to, and then leave and come home from. The English word church is the Greek word ecclesia and means 'called out ones'. What are we called out from? Maybe man's religious systems is a part of that? Also, the church is not where we go, it is who we are...ALL THE TIME. If I were to say that I am Irish or I am white it would be the same as saying I am part of the church. It is who I am in my blood. It's not my job or my favorite vacation place. We ought not forsake the coming together of the brethren in fellowship and sharing and 'one-anothering', but nowhere are we told to hire a person to minister over us every week, indefinitely. The Body can and does work spontaneously in people who are operating through a principle of relationships. You cannot speak into, correct, admonish, teach, minister, or even bless another follower if you don't have an intimate, working knowledge of that person and their life circumstances. Where in the word are we called to prepare a sermon ahead of time that will be given to a general audience?
Only the arrogance of religion would presume to "be doing it right", as stated in your third to last statement. The truth is, we don't know what the Body of Christ looks like, so how can we conform ourselves to it? We can pray daily, "Lord, conform us to the image of your dear Son", but it is He who does the conforming.
Did you know that until the Roman emperor, Constantine, came along (300 years after Pentacost), the Christian faith was the only 'religion' in history that met in homes? It was the only 'lay' person led religion in history. It is what made Christianity unique, verile, elastic, flexible and adaptable. Constantine changed all that. All other religions of man-kind had things, such as temples, priests, vestal virgins, rituals, a mostly silent laity, and a vocabulary understood only by members. Christianity now has all of these, except for the vestal virgins, of course.
Constantine ordered the construction of 19 Christian buildings. They were built in Bethlehem, Jerusalem, Constantinople and Rome. Since all the pagan buildings were named after pagan gods, Constantine thought the Christian buildings ought to be named after someone, specifically, first century saints. Hence the beginning of Saint Luke, Saint John, etc.
Very scriptural. We are bible-practicing protestants, aren't we?
These buildings later became known as churches.
This word church is the Greek word kyriakon and means
belonging to the Lord. Later the meaning extended to the people who gathered there. The New Testament knew only ekklesia,
the community of the saints. She (the ekklesia) is the house of the Lord built of living stones. With the emergence of the word church, our eyes were turned away from the living ekklesia of the living God to the dead edifice made of dead stones with human hands.
It is true that some of todays "churches" operate more closely in some of these points than do others. But my point is that the entire concept of a church building, hired help, common fellowship area, etc. are NOT the way Christ intended His followers to go with it. The first century church operated and functioned without man's inventions.
As for the second Anonymous poster, to answer your questions:
"How could you view there teaching as a performance?"I didn't say the pastor performed. I said, "When I hear the word 'service', I think of a building with a Pastor up front doing the preaching and everyone else being serviced. Sitting back,
enjoying the music 'performance', taking in the message."
"Is there growth where you are?" We are growing and learning always. If by 'growth' you mean an increase in numbers, although I can honestly say yes, I believe that is God's business. I witness and fellowship where He leads, He brings the increase. There is also
tremendous spiritual growth. Those who were once sucking the life blood out of the organizational church (as far as being needy for information, teachings, handouts, etc...my self included) are now in a mental, spiritual place of life where they have become givers and blessers.
"How are you serving the others in your comm.?" The word community you use, is one I interpret literally. I am blessed to be involved with a gathering of followers who truly believe in Acts 2 living. We serve one another wherever we are led. We care for one another. I believe we have all things in common. We have given of ourselves and our possessions in every aspect, (from a place to live, a car, a van, food, clothes, cash, home repairs, time, love, etc.), the list goes on. Keep in mind that the concept of having all things common doesn't make your brother richer while you lack, nor does it prosper you while leaving your brother in need. The concept was to bring equality AMONG the brethren.As for giving to the world around us... that is a blog post in itself. Bluntly, I do not believe in getting caught up in the cares of this world (Matt 13:22). The 3rd group in this parable got caught up in the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches and become unfruitful. Remember, Jesus said His yoke is easy and His burden is light. Things like feeding the world's hungry and housing the world's poor are not light or easy. We are to care for those who call themselves our brethren, and those who directly cross our path and ask for help (Christian or not). This is my stand on that as of today! lol"How are you expanding the body of Christ?" Where are we commanded to expand the Body? We are called to speak the gospel (Mk 13:10), to live the gospel's message in truth (1Cor 9:14). Those who hear the gospel message, and accept it because their spirit bears witness to it's truth will then require discipling. That's our job, to disciple for a season. It's not a lifetime journey of sitting under the same teacher or pastor and expecting him to feed you. They should eventually grow up and be doing the feeding (Heb 6). Not to mention all the time, money, energy and other resources that are expended on maintaining a staff of ministry in a building when those same resources could be used to bring equality among the brethren!
"How are you using your spirtual gifts?" Specifically? When interceeding for loved ones, I pray in tongues. When opening my home to another, hospitality. When discipling a new convert, the gift of teaching. Buying or prepareing food for the hungry, love, charity and generosity. Let me ask you, why do I have to be a member of a congregation to use my gifts? The life God has preordained for me sets up plenty of occassions to use the gifts He intends for me to use IN THE INSTANCE HE PLANNED FOR ME TO USE THEM. I need not go looking, opportunity abounds. Obtaining a "pastoral degree" from a seminary or theology training school is nothing more than man given authority. We are all priests and kings unto the Lord, we have an anointing from the Holy One and you know all things, and the anointing which you have recieved from Him abides in you and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him. (1 John 2:20, 27)
"How do you feel a building holds you back from growing? A building is just a common place you followship with fellow Chritians." They absolutely are not. They are places people go to be spoon fed the word ( ie. sermon, lesson, teachings) by people they deem to be more knowledgable than they. Look around you at other churches to be more objective. Do they not all list sunday school meetings, 1 or 2 or even 3 sunday services, childrens groups, teen groups, young adult groups, women's groups, mens groups, mid-week bible studies, cell groups, etc., etc. There is very little deep intimate "getting inside one another's lives" type of fellowship going on inside those buildings (or potlucks). If what you say is true, then why not use the money and resources to bring equality among the brethren and go ahead and fellowship with other followers outside the building, in intimate gatherings that build relationships and minister one to another? I have been to many church (buildings) and I would venture to bet it's true for you also to some degree. Out of the total number of people in your church (let's say 200, give or take), to how many of those families do you know 'personally'? Intimately personal. Do you fellowship outside the building regularly? Do you know their spouses and children? Their birthdays and anniversaries? Do they have a dining room and if so, what's the color scheme? How about their financial position? Or better yet, how many of them know your financial situation? How many of them would you call at 2 am crying asking for prayer? How many would call you?It is a simple fact that a building is not scriptural, not necessary and is, in fact, a hinderance to Gods people. A loved one of mine actually said that although she agrees with me in theory, without going to church on Sunday she wouldn't seek His word on her own. That is true for many more than we would like to believe. And it only follows, that if the only way they seek God is through the Sunday sermon, how can they hear Him apart from the building? What happens when the buildings are destroyed and the bibles taken away? In the last days, how will they hear Him? They have not been trained to hear and rely solely on the still, small voice of the shephard, but instead on another mans interpretation of Him."It is up to you to do you work for the kingdom! How many churches have you been member of? It seems that your opinion is one sided/bias. Based on a one time experience that you see to be the truth of all churches. To me that sems to be judgmental." It is my job to do what God tells me to do, period. I have ever only belonged to one church, the Body of Jesus Christ. That is another problem with buildings. They bring division amongst the Body of Christ. I went to several different buildings; a baptist, a pentacostal, an evangelical, 2 methodists, 2 Lutheran, etc., and even joined a couple...for a season. My thoughts ARE biased, toward the truth of history and scripture. There is a better way. The way Christ intended, but because the building is all we've ever known, we're afraid to let it go. I am not judging those who attend a building. For there, but by the grace of God, go I. I was there until God told me not to be there. We are accountable to God for what we do with the things He reveals to us. We are each doing what we believe God wants us to do and when we know better we do better. I believe I am doing what He would have me to do today.Be blessed and thank you for your comments. I look forward to further discussion and comment as it challenges me to search out truth and further examine what I believe and why. - Alisa
